ANTI Ecumenism - SUPERB American Orthodox docum PART 1 of 15
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Against Ecumenism
http://www.orthodox.net/articles/against-ecumenism.html
This verse clearly and directly states that Christians must stay together, speaking, thinking and believing the same things. Orthodoxy, which has held the Christian faithful together in one divine body for two millennia, is the perfect fulfillment of these instructions. In the Orthodox Church, the faithful conform their minds and will to the sacred teachings of the faith, and this brings perfect spiritual unity.
If we are not of one mind, we are in direct disobedience to the Gospel, to the Church, and to Christ. To be of one mind, we must follow the teachings of and conform ourselves to the ancient Christian Church, the true Church of Christ, the Orthodox Church.
O Holy Lord Jesus Christ, help us to remain steadfast in the holy teachings of Thy church and disallow false ways of believing, thinking and living to corrupt and scatter Thy flock! Grant that we may preserve unsullied the pearl of great price given unto us, keeping it inviolate for all generations to come, through the prayers of Thy most pure Mother and of all the saints. Amen.
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4 comments:
It sure is easy to have a "conversation" when all three participants simply agree with one another and do not have their ideas challenged. There are all kinds of holes in these Orthodox shiboleths like Roman doctrine is legal and not organic. That is absurd. Roman doctrine is only as legal as the teachings of the earliest councils which taught be legal means. One cannot condemn Catholicism for legalism and uphold the first 7 councils. I defy you or anyone to make a meaningful distinction here.
And there are plenty of other problems here. The speakers claim that Orthodoxy is unified. This is patently untrue as is evident in the Russians walking out of Ravenna.
What you have in Orthodoxy is a conglomeration of ethnocentric polycephalic bodies. Please show me how this in any way correlates to the Church of the Roman Empire or the early church. No, it is an ecclesiological invention of the 15th century and later.
Father J,
What is your main contention here?
This segment in particular has not aired any particular shiboleths contra the Roman Catholic Church that I caught. Perhaps you viewed more segments where these men discuss such things but thus far, nothing has been said that should cause you distress except, perhaps, that these men, as I, when speaking of the Church do not include the present day Roman communion into our deliberations in dealing with the subject this documentary seeks to flesh out, namely, the heresy of Ecumenism.
This subject within Orthodoxy is a very touchy one as stated in this video.
Many Orthodox, including myself to some degree, are unsure what is to be our relationship with those who are outside the Church and yet are "Christians".
I put "Christians" in italics only for the purpose that even for myself, an Orthodox, I am truly not, as my heart towards God is so cold and barren. So I pray that God may take pity on me and help me to be ever becoming "Orthodox".
I am not presently looking to debate with you or anyone else for that matter along these lines as I have found that it is best to reserve words for appropriate times when the one seeking may be aided home to the Church.
I don't believe you are seeking this so I can only wish you well and peace.
If you wish, please expand upon your last paragraph,
"What you have in Orthodoxy is a conglomeration of ethnocentric polycephalic bodies. Please show me how this in any way correlates to the Church of the Roman Empire or the early church. No, it is an ecclesiological invention of the 15th century and later."
Who invented it?
Are you positive that your own shilobeths are accurate in regards to Orthodoxy and those who hold this Faith?
I don't think the term "heresy of ecumenism" is helpful at all. The word heresy has many bad connotations in many minds.
The word ecumenism gets a bad rap because it has come to be associated with the heretical "we all love Jesus, let's just sing kumbaya and pray to our ancestral spirits while praising Allah!" This kind of ecumenism is not right and is indeed heretical. However there is a different kind of ecumenism that is not evil. Ecumenism is really a conversation with estranged Christians, such as Roman Catholics. It should not seek to concede on doctrine, but point others to the Orthodox belief. The Catholics are not far off, but there are some things which we must clarify and in some instances (papal supremacy, etc.) they must move towards a more Orthodox view of the Church.
(PS. Having studied Church History, and especially the Great Schism in depth, it is hard to come to the conclusion that it was the Roman church that left the Orthodox Church. And in fact, the schism did not happen in 1054 officially, but was made official after the sacking of Constantinople nearly 300 years later.)
I leave you with this thought. When a Roman Catholic comes into the Orthodox Church, they are charismated, not baptized. The reason being that there is one baptism for the remission of sins. The Romans practice basically the same baptism as Orthodox (except they tend to be a little more lax on whether to use pouring or not, which according to Church Cannons is an acceptable means.) If baptism is not only the forgiveness of sins, but the adoption into the church, it is hard to reconcile that if we recognize the Roman baptism, we recognize that Romans are indeed a part of the Church in a real and physical way. Again, there is much to be discussed about this, but I post these comments only to point out the other side of this discussion.
TruthSpirit,
Welcome, first of all and thank you for your comment.
You are correct that there is much to be discussed about this whole issue but I would have to say that you are incorrect that Rome left the Church, or more accurately put, Rome ceased to be the Church when she ceased in confessing the Holy Catholic Orthodox Faith which Faith was the common Faith of all.
I believe you to be correct that the schism was finalized with the sack of Constantinople and had in fact begun far before 1054.
I also agree with your assessment of Ecumenism in principle but the issue of what exactly are Christians who are not Orthodox Catholics is I believe a mystery.
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