Recently, on Mike Liccione's blog, Sacramentum Vitae, I had the opportunity to banter a bit with other bloggers about Mike's post, Development of Doctrine,Fr.Louth, and Ecumenism. This post is one of several Mike has posted regarding this issue of development of doctrine, a cardinal Roman Catholic belief that allows the Roman Catholic Church to explain why, having shared in the Orthodox Faith for one millenia with all the Sees of "the East", Rome can hold doctrine today that make us Orthodox very uncomfortable, especially when the higher ups in the episcopacy get together and rumors of uniting once again seem to be increasing.
This post is not an attempt to highlight our differences, nor to discuss doctrine per se, but to ponder impressions I felt being part of the comments early on.
This post is not an attempt to highlight our differences, nor to discuss doctrine per se, but to ponder impressions I felt being part of the comments early on.
One of my main impressions was the discovery that, to some extent, it did not seem as if many(if any) of the bloggers were interested in dogmatic stances of the Orthodox Church spoken of as self evident facts. What the bloggers were intersted in were in statements being made that could be debated with, to be argued in a philosophical way. This is not necessarily bad in my view, but my real reason for concern was that the religious experience of one making a claim was so easily discounted.
Understandably, I can see why this is so because we can lob religious experiences at each other and never discuss the soil one is rooted in to have said religious experiences and the discussion would quickly break down. But on the other hand I detected a "Philosophy vs. Religion" undercurrent running throughout.
These are issues I will write about in future installments.
Getting back to this post, "The Orthodox Church is the True Church". I use this statement to perhaps once again highlight another impression I mused about while commenting on this site. Substantiating this claim is again not my purpose here, but to comment about reactions to such statements, whether this one or others stating a truth or what one asserts to be true.
When making this statement in debates with our "Western" friends, the immediate response is usually one of indignation and incredulity that one can be so narrow to believe such a thing.
(For the purpose of this post, all non-Orthodox Christians will be designated as "Western". The merits of titles such as "Eastern" and "Western" are not the subject of this post, but I do believe they merit discussion which will be left for the future.)
I believe the incredulity stems not from having examined the claim to judge its veracity but from a manifestation of the times: having to state ideas or assertions in a "politically correct" manner so as to not offend anyone.
Increasingly, even among our Western friends, a statement made such as the the one I chose as the title for this post arouses anger and antipathy that any such statement could be made. However, many of our Christian friends complain of the same treatment given them among non-Christians when the exclusivity of Jesus is claimed. That salvation can ONLY be found in the Person of Jesus Christ is seen as ludicrous and narrow and very "behind the times".
Now what I wish to bring to the Christian reader's attention is his own reaction to someone scoffing at his belief that Jesus is the one and only unique Son of God, and as this Person, none exist or have existed or further yet will exist ever to offer an alternative way to God. If as a Christian, believing on Him as truly the Son of God, I ask you to judge yourself; why do you believe such a thing? What behooves you to accept as true what many countless others cannot or will not? Is it because the Holy Scriptures teach you so? Does the church you attend expound on Him this way? He changed your life? Just because? Really, what proofs do you offer the unbeliever to set forth Jesus as the unique Son of God?
Believing on Jesus in this manner, in so narrow a way, is not hip, not cool at all. It seems to fly in the face of the sensibilities of the modern man approaching anything which purports to be true in and of itself. "That's your opinion" is a common response to making any kind of an assertion of truth. Contextualizing a statement, placing it within a grid where when plugged in the statement comes alive, pulsating with the energy of its atmosphere, seems to be far removed a task for us moderns. The hard work necessary to verify a statement is a great deterrent to seeking out truth. Pat, easy answers, the homework done by someone else is the rule of the day, their conclusions so easily accepted.
"The Orthodox Church is the true Church" statement falls from the same barrage of indifference and political incorrectness. Never mind that parallel with what has been handed down as accepted history runs another telling of the story, unknown and hidden to seekers of the easy way. Never mind that Her Faith is contained intact, full, unchanged from the beginning and that faith is itself that context which the human person may enter into, "plug in". Living in this atmosphere, breathing the fragrance exuded by the Spirit, a man may come to know the Ancient of Days as He freely roams about the garden, fellowshipping with the man. Here the man truly becomes, translated from the realm of shadows into that substance and fabric of which Immortality is fashioned, being healed of death.
No, I say, never mind. For you always seek proof. You have stopped your ears. You do not believe me. You are not willing to believe that maybe, just maybe the truth I tell you. The Christian life to you is just another category of your existence taken down from the shelf at your leisure to discuss, to intellectualize.
Never mind that those who most perfectly realized the perfection to be found in Christ have born witness to His Resurrection, living His Life and have left to us much to inculcate the belief deep down that this life is not for the wise but for the simple, that to live His life I must needs only repent and throw myself upon His mercy.
No. Never mind I say.
Sophocles:
ReplyDeleteI'm very sympathetic to your post. I began exploring Orthodoxy from the intellectual standpoint. It has taken me three plus years to finally "get it" that Orthodoxy is lived before one attempts to philosophize it.
That said, I do happen to think there's a place for philosophy in the faith. Or the use of philosophy in the defense and explication of the faith.
But if we're going to do that, we will have to do so within the confines of philosophical boundaries. That does, admittedly, run the risk of distorting the faith. And, further, doing so is an utterly derivative project. But there's something to be said for those Fathers, such as the Cappadocians and St. Gregory Palamas who use it and do so carefully.
Dear Benedict,
ReplyDeleteI'm in full agreement with you on your points regarding philosophy. My contention with it is only in its use, and I also appreciate its right use.
When I was commenting on Mike's blog, I received a different impression from the RC's as to what place philosophy holds in the understanding of God hence some of the fuel for the post I did.
I'm new to the whole blog scene, so I'm just getting my feet wet. By exchanging with those fellas(even poorly)I am gradually understanding what the true issues are between us through experience in debate and not only through the reading in books about those differences and all the centuries' previous dialogues between the two churches. Sort of ironic given that the issue is one of revelation(direct experience of God) vs. deducing from premises based on the use of the intellect that though may know all the correct starting points, has no direct experience to guide towards theoria.
Anyway, these are my thoughts and I'm glad you visited this backwater blog as well.
In Christ and in fellowship,
Dear Sophocles;
ReplyDeleteI loved this post! How do we know was is true or right? In the Sociology course I teach one of the things we discuss is how we know what we know...analyzing how we rely on science for some things, tradition and custom for other things, and "gut feeling" for yet other areas of our life.
In my own faith we are taught to bear testimony of what we know through the confirmation of the Holy Spirit rather than to scripture bash with others or to argue points of doctrine. One of our basic tentants is "We claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same priviledge. Let them worship how, where, or what they may."
Still - I've been told we are tremendously arrogant to claim we have the true authority of God on the earth today.
I've been to other churches (incuding Orthodox) and read fairly extensively from the teachings of MANY of them. (Absolutely loved Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells by Matthew Gallatin and
Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works by Hieromonk Damascene.)
I've studied and considered a variety of beliefs. Some seem appealing or reasonable on many fronts. But I keep coming back to what I've experienced in my heart in answer to prayer.
This past November I spent some time at St. Catherine's monastery in Egypt and then went walking alone on Mt. Siani for some deep, pondering communion with God about what it is I believe. The confirmation I received on that mountain outweighs anything any person will every teach me - in my own church or any other.
Arguments based on "evidence", history or the most eloquently expressed philosophies simply do not shift that. I know what I know because when I have gotten quiet and gone to my God, the answers I have received reverberated in my soul with a sense of truth I cannot refute.
I'll spend the rest of my days trying to more fully understand God's plan for me, but I will never doubt that I am a child of God and that he DOES have a plan for my life, even when I can't see it.
Dear Belladonna,
ReplyDeleteOnce again, thank you for your thoughtful post.
I, too, have struggled with "How do I know what I know?" I would argue that in some sense it is just part and parcel of the human experience, perhaps moreso in these latter days with the advent and establishment of nihilism interwoven into the fabric of existence.
That said, I have found peace in empirical evidence that the Orthodox Church is the true, historical, indisputable Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ. The evidence, far too much an ambitious undertaking to convey here in this combox, reveals itself in so many levels. I personally could not believe were it not so.
On another note, I'd be interested in hearing about your experience at St. Catherine's. The nearest I've been there is at the Getty Museum in L.A. they had an extensive exhibit of Icons from there.
Have you ever read, "Mountain of Silence"? Wonderful work even though there are some theological problems with it as the author seems to be just entering his journey within the Orthodox Church.
Dear Sophocles,
ReplyDeleteNo, I've not read Mountain of Silence... perhaps I'll add it to the pile of books I hope to read.
I was conflicted by my time at St. Catherine. Having been to St. Anthony's in Arizona and then to St. John's in Goldendale, WA I guess I went expecting the same sort of quiet reverence. Instead I found a near circus environment of vendors right outside the doors hawking souvenirs. Then, once inside people were noisily bartering prices for prayer ropes and postcards in the bookshop.
I recognize that barter is very much a part of Egyptian culture, so maybe that should not have surprised me so much. But it still troubled me. I didn't really mind forking over an entrance fee to view the icons, as I do realize it takes resources to keep the monastery running. Still, the overall experience made me think of the how the Savior must have felt when he found all the money changers in the temple.
However, despite the crush of the people laughing as they took pictures, my soul was lifted as I stood before the plant said to be the burning bush and reflected on the experiences that Moses had there. Then down the road a piece from the Monastery there is a carving in the rock wall of a calf to commemorate the children of Israel’s fall into idolatry. As I stood next to that I thought deep about the ways I too can be lured into worshiping false Gods – maybe not a golden calf, but the allure of prestige over college degrees, high position in my profession, and recognition by my peers is every bit as damning. Having grown up poor and obscure and then made the transition into academic success it would be all too easy to fall into that trap.
Walking through the wilderness of the hills of Sinai I understood more than ever before how totally dependant the children of Israel would have been on gathering the Manna sent by God. It is truly a bleak, desolate place. There is no way they would have survived without faithful reliance on this gift. Likewise, despite the physical comfort and abundance available to me in this modern world, I too walk through a spiritually bleak and desolate land and must rely absolutely on the feast/manna that God will provide as I become willing to die to myself and awake in His grace.
In Cairo I spent some time sitting on the floor of an ancient mosque with my dear Islamic guide discussing our respective beliefs – it was quite amazing. The opportunity to bear testimony of Jesus Christ and to give him a copy of the scriptures I hold so dear was a choice experience.
I have heard good things about the Getty exhibit and I have the CD from there.
I don’t believe I even come close to understanding the way that the Orthodox community relates to icons. I see them as works of art, symbolic representations of key religious figures. I know they are so much more to you.
Last year as Pascha as I participated in the march around the church with others carrying the holy icons I think I got a brief glimmer of a sense … but even then I know I miss much of what this is about as an outsider.
Still, I am ever so grateful to my sweet Orthodox friends who have welcomed me into their midst, answered my many questions, and been patient with my curiosity despite my skepticism.
Each Lenten season I learn a new level of understanding of repentance. Then, throughout the year as I am exposed to the various feasts and fasts I truly do benefit, even in the absence of faith in the ancient ways and not being a part of your sacraments.
I know that by Orthodox standards I am not considered to be truly Christian since I do not accept the concept of Trinity nor do I believe in the Nicene creed. So be it. My faith in the Godhead as I understand it (Father, Son & Holy Spirit as three distinct, separate beings who are united in purpose) is actually much stronger today as a result of the study I’ve done about Orthodoxy. I feel richly blessed by BOTH the faith path I have chosen and my familiarity of the ancient church.
Dear Belladonna,
ReplyDeleteAgain, thank you so much for taking your precious time to speak with me and share with me your heart.
Wow. St.Catherine's was like that? Intersting. At the Geddy exhibit they played a 10 minute clip about the monastery and it showed the genuine esteem the locals have for the place, many times going for blessings. It's also fascinating how it escaped Muslim subjugation by its location. It also became a haven not only for Icons, but the theological works in its library is said to rival that in the Vatican in ancient manuscripts(I don't have the exact stats at my memory's disposal here).
Another thing that interests me deeply is your attraction to Orthodoxy. I was baptized into the Faith as a baby. I , you could say, discarded the Faith as the lure of the world captured me. I then became a die hard Evangelical and only in the last few years have I "rediscovered" Orthodoxy. To my surprise, I learned that many are being exposed to the Orthodox Faith and I"m dumbfounded by this.Converts like Matthew you cited and many others show me its not just a Greek thing or Russian or any ethnic group.
Would you mind sharing with me your own attraction to Orthodoxy; how you first heard of it, why you like going to such places as monasteries to begin with(is this related to your teaching Sociology?), some of your questions regarding Orthodoxy?I would be honored.
Dear Belladonna,
ReplyDeleteBtw, I added you to my blog roll.
Greetings again;
ReplyDeleteI'd be happy to share with you some of my journey privately but it's not something I really want to post out for the whole world to see. If you care to converse off line to can e-mail me at belladonnapiranha(at)yahoo.com.